How to Prolong Lead-acid Batteries
A lead acid battery goes through three life phases, called formatting, peak and decline (Figure 1). In the formatting phase try to imagine sponge-like lead plates that are being exposed to a liquid. Exercising the plates allows absorbing more liquid, much like squeezing and releasing a sponge. This enables the electrolyte to better fill the usable areas, which increases the capacity. Formatting is most important for deep-cycle batteries and requires 20 to 50 full cycles to reach peak capacity. Field usage does this and there is no need to apply added cycles for the sake of priming, however, manufacturers say to go easy on the battery until broken in. Starter batteries are less critical and do not need priming; the full cranking power is present right from the beginning.
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Figure 1: Cycle life of a battery The three phases of a battery are formatting, peak and decline. Courtesy of Cadex |
A deep-cycle battery delivers 100–200 cycles before it starts the gradual decline. Replacement should occur when the capacity drops to 70 or 80 percent. Applying a fully saturated 14- to 16-hour charge and operating at moderate temperatures assure the longest service times. If at all possible, avoid deep discharges and charge more often.
The primary reason for the relatively short cycle life of a lead acid battery is depletion of active material. According to the 2010 BCI Failure Modes Study,* plate/grid-related breakdown has increased from 30 percent five years ago to 39 percent today. The report does not give reasons for the increased wear-and-tear, other than to assume that higher demands of starter batteries in modern cars induce added stress. While the depletion of the active material is well understood and can be calculated, a lead acid battery suffers from other infirmities long before plate- and grid-deterioration sound the death knell.Let’s look at the most common problems that develop with use and time — from internal to external — and what battery users can do to minimize the effect.
Corrosion / Shedding
Corrosion occurs primarily on the grid and is known as a softening and shedding of lead off the plates, a reaction that cannot be avoided because the electrodes in a lead acid environment are always reactive. Lead shedding is a natural phenomenon that can only be slowed down and not eliminated. A battery that reaches the end of life through this failure mode has met or exceeded the anticipated life span. Limiting the depth of discharge, reducing the cycle count, operating at a moderate temperature and controlling overcharge are key in keeping corrosion in check. To reduce corrosion on long-life batteries, manufacturers keep specific gravity at a moderate 1.200 when fully charged. This, however, reduces the capacity the battery can hold.
Applying prolonged overcharge is another contributor to grid corrosion. This is especially damaging to sealed lead acid systems. While the flooded lead acid has some resiliency to overcharge, sealed units must operate at a correct float charge. Chargers with variable float voltages that adjust to the prevailing temperature help to keep grid corrosion in check. Such chargers are in common use for stationary batteries.
To attain maximum surface area, the lead on a starter battery is applied in a sponge-like form. With time and use, chunks of lead fall off and reduce the performance. The thicker plates prevent this from happening on deep-cycle batteries. Figure 2 illustrates the innards of a corroded lead acid battery.
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Figure 2: Courtesy of Journal of Power Sources (2009) |
The terminals of a battery can also corrode, and this is often visible in the form of white powder. The phenomenon is a result of oxidation between two different metals connecting the poles. Terminal corrosion can eventually lead to an open electrical connection. Changing the connecting terminals to lead, the same material as the battery pole of a starter battery, will solve most corrosion problems.
Short
The term “short” is commonly used to describe a general battery fault when no other definition is available. As the colloquial term “memory” was the cause of all battery ills in the NiCd days, so do we today describe non-functioning lead acid batteries simply as being “shorted.” Let’s take a closer look and see what a shorted lead acid battery truly is.
The lead within a battery, especially in deep-cycle units, is mechanically active and when a battery discharges, the lead sulfate causes the plates to expand. This movement reverses during charge and the plates contract. The cells allow for some expansion but over time the growth of large sulfite crystals can result in a soft short that increases self-discharge. This mechanical action also causes shedding of the lead material. On a starter battery, the shedding is manageable because the lead plates are thin and the battery does not go through a deep discharge. On a deep-cycle battery, on the other hand, shedding is a major concern.
As the battery sheds its lead to the bottom of the container, a conductive layer forms, and once the contaminated material fills the allotted space in the sediment trap, the now conductive liquid reaches the plates and creates a shorting effect. The term “short” is a misnomer and elevated self-discharge would be a better term to describe the condition.
“Soft shorts” are difficult to detect because the battery appears normal immediately after a charge and everything seems to function as it should. In essence, the charge has wiped out all evidence of a soft short, except perhaps an elevated temperature on the housing. Once rested for 6–12 hours, the battery begins to show anomalies such as a lower open-circuit voltage and reduced specific gravity. The measured capacity will also be low because self-discharge has consumed some of the stored energy. According to the 2010 BCI Failure Modes Study, shorted batteries accounted for 18 percent of battery failures, a drop from 31 percent five years earlier. Improved manufacturing methods may account for this reduction.
Another form of “soft” short is mossing. This occurs when the separators and plates are slightly misaligned as a result of poor manufacturing. This causes parts of the plates to become naked. The exposure promotes the formation of conductive crystal moss around the edges, which leads to elevated self-discharge.
Lead dropis another cause of short, in which large chunks of lead break loose from the welded bars connecting the plates. Unlike a “soft” short that develops with wear-and-tear, a lead drop often occurs early in battery life and causes a more serious short that is associated with a permanent voltage drop. The shorted cell has no charge and the specific gravity of the electrolyte is close to 1.00. This is mostly a manufacturing defect and cannot be repaired.
The most radical and serious form of short is a mechanical failure in which the suspended plates become loose and touch each other. This results in a sudden high discharge current that can lead to excessive heat buildup and thermal runaway. Sloppy manufacturing as well as excessive shock and vibration are the most common contributors to this failure.
Sulfation
Sulfationoccurs when a lead acid battery is deprived of a full charge. This is common with starter batteries in cars that are driven in the city with load-hungry accessories engaged. A motor in idle or at low speed cannot charge the battery sufficiently.
Electric wheelchairs have a similar problem in that the users might not charge the battery long enough. An eight-hour charge during the night when the chair is free is not enough. Lead acid must periodically be charged 14–16 hours to attain full saturation. This may be the reason why wheelchair batteries last only two years, whereas golf car batteries deliver twice the service life. Longer leisure time allows golf car batteries to get a fully saturated charge.
Solar cells and wind turbines do not always provide sufficient charge, and lead acid banks succumb to sulfation. This happens in remote parts of the world where villagers draw generous amounts of electricity with insufficient renewable resources to charge the batteries. The result is a short battery life. Only a periodic fully saturated charge could solve the problem, but without an electrical grid at their disposal, this is almost impossible. An alternative is using lithium-ion, a battery that is forgiving to a partial charge, but this would cost much more than lead acid.
What is sulfation? During use, small sulfate crystals form, but these are normal and are not harmful. During prolonged charge deprivation, however, the amorphous lead sulfate converts to a stable crystalline that deposits on the negative plates. This leads to the development of large crystals, which reduce the battery’s active material that is responsible for high capacity and low resistance Sulfation also lowers charge acceptance; with sulfation charging will take longer.
There are two types of sulfation: reversible or soft sulfation, and permanent or hard sulfation. If a battery is serviced early, reversible sulfation can often be corrected by applying an overcharge to a fully charged battery in the form of a regulated current of about 200mA. The battery terminal voltage is allowed to rise to between 2.50 and 2.66V/cell (15 and 16V on a 12V mono block) for about 24 hours. Increasing the battery temperature to 50–60°C (122–140°F) further helps in dissolving the crystals. Permanent sulfation sets in when the battery has been in a low state-of-charge for weeks or months, and at this stage no form of restoration is possible.
There is a fine line between reversible and non-reversible sulfation, and most batteries have a little bit of both. Good results are achievable if the sulfation is only a few weeks old; restoration becomes more difficult the longer the battery is allowed to stay in a low SoC. A battery may improve marginally when applying a de-sulfation service but it may not reach a satisfactory performance level. A subtle indication of whether a lead acid can be recovered is visible on the voltage discharge curve. If a fully charged battery retains a stable voltage profile on discharge, chances of reactivation are better than if the voltage drops rapidly with load.
Several companies offer anti-sulfation devices that apply pulses to the battery terminals to prevent and reverse sulfation. Such technologies tend to lower sulfation on a healthy battery but they cannot effectively reverse the condition once present. Manufacturers offering these devices take the “one size fits all” approach and the method is unscientific. A random service of pulsing or overcharging can harm the battery in promoting grid corrosion. Technologies are being developed that measure the level of sulfation and apply a calculated overcharge to dissolve the crystals. Chargers featuring this technique only apply de-sulfation if sulfation is present and for only a short duration as needed
Water Loss / Dry-out
During use, and especially on overcharge, the water in the electrolyte splits into hydrogen and oxygen. The battery begins to gas, which results in water loss. In flooded batteries, water can be added but in sealed batteries water loss leads to an eventual dry-out and decline in capacity. Water loss from a sealed unit can eventually cause disintegration of the separator. The initial stages of dry-out can go undetected and the drop in capacity may not immediately be evident. Early detection of this failure is important.
On overcharge, a battery becomes a water-splitting device that turns water into oxygen and hydrogen. The fuel cell does the opposite; it turns oxygen and hydrogen back to electricity and produces water. Turing water to hydrogen needs energy; converting hydrogen and oxygen to water generates energy. Read more about Fuel Cell Technology.
Acid Stratification
Theelectrolyte of a stratified battery concentrates on the bottom, starving the upper half of the cell. Acid stratification occurs if the battery dwells at low charge (below 80 percent), never receives a full charge and has shallow discharges. Driving a car for short distances with power-robbing accessories contributes to acid stratification because the alternator cannot always apply a saturated charge under such conditions. Large luxury cars are especially prone to this. Acid stratification is not a battery defect per se but the result of a particular usage. Figure 3 illustrates a normal battery in which the acid is equally distributed from top to bottom.
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Figure 3: Normal battery The acid is equally distributed from the top to the bottom of the battery, providing good overall performance. Courtesy of Cadex |
Figure 4 shows a stratified battery in which the acid concentration is light on top and heavy on the bottom. The light acid on top limits plate activation, promotes corrosion and reduces the performance, while the high acid concentration on the bottom makes the battery appear more charged than it is and artificially raises the open-circuit voltage. Because of unequal charge across the plates, the CCA performance is also affected.
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Figure 4: Stratified battery The acid concentration is light on top and heavy on the bottom. This raises the open circuit voltage and the battery appears fully charged. Excessive acid concentration induces sulfation on the lower half of the plates. Courtesy of Cadex |
Allowing the battery to rest for a few days, doing a shaking motion or tipping the battery on its side helps correct the problem. Applying an equalizing charge by raising the voltage of a 12-volt battery to 16 volts for one to two hours also helps by mixing the electrolyte through electrolysis. Avoid extending the topping charge beyond its recommended time.
Acid stratifications cannot always be avoided. During cold winter months, starter batteries of passenger cars dwell at a 75 percent charge level. Knowing that motor idling and driving in gridlocked traffic does not sufficiently charge the battery, a charge with an external charger may be needed from time to time. If this is not practical, a switch to an AGM battery will help. AGM does not suffer from acid stratification and is less subject to sulfation if undercharged than the flooded version. AGM is a little more expensive than the flooded starter battery.
Surface Charge
Lead acid batteries are sluggish and cannot convert lead sulfate to lead and lead dioxide quickly enough during charge. As a result, most of the charge activities occur on the plate surfaces. This induces a higher state-of-charge on the outside than in the inner plate. A battery with surface charge has a slightly elevated voltage. To normalize the condition, switch on electrical loads to remove about one percent of the battery’s capacity, or allow the battery to rest for a few hours. Surface charge is not a battery defect but a reversible condition resulting from charging.
Simple Guidelines for Extending Battery Life
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Charge in a well-ventilated area. Allow a fully saturated charge of 14 hours.
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Always keep lead acid charged. Avoid storage below 2.10V/cell, or SG below 1.190.
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Avoid deep discharges. The deeper the discharge, the shorter the battery life will be. A brief charge on a 1- to 2-hour break during heavy use prolongs battery life.
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Never allow the electrolyte to drop below the tops of the plates. Exposed plates sulfate and become inactive. When low, add only enough water to cover the exposed plates before charging; fill to the correct level after charge.
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Never add acid; use distilled or ionized water. Tap water may be usable in some regions.
- When new, a deep-cycle battery may only have about 75 percent capacity. Formatting as part of field use will gradually increase performance. Apply a gentle load for the first five cycles to allow a new battery to format.
* Every five years, the Battery Council International Technical Subcommittee conducts a study to determine the failure modes of batteries that have been removed from service.
Comments
I am a qualified auto electrician and I still found this article to be quite informative Thank you/
Need some help here regarding my Split System AC. It’s not operating well and produce a warm air.
Are you people so stupid you can’t realize the article and website have nothing to do with your posts? Call an hvac technician or suffer.
Back to the toppic. I had a sla battery almost blow up inside my battery backup system. Bought it used plugged it in and ran fine for a week. Then the battery alarm started going off. Upon inspecting the battery it swelled about 1/4” on all sides and had visible cracking of the case but did not release any fluids and from the swelling I would say didn’t release any gas either.
iyr: you probably bought a battery that had been sitting on the shelf for a long time.
It would be sulphated, thats why it swells up. The only other reason could be over-charging
I have a question :
Application: electric scooter
Battery Type: Sealed Lead Acid
Batteries: 12 V 20Ah deep cycle (4 batteries in scooter)
Model: Tainnaeng 6-DMZ-20
Charger 1: 2 Ah 48 V
Charger 2: 4 Ah 48 V
Maximum charger that can be used 5 Ah ( 20 / 4 )
Question: using charger1 will I get longer battery life then using charger 2 and by how much
basic diffrence between valve regulated lead acid battery and convenctional lead acid battery
Thanks for the auther for his kindness to share such a good article. actually we are professinal producer of valve regulated lead acid batteries in China with reasonable price and excellent quality.
any question you may have, please feel free to contact!
allenhuang2011@hotmail.com
We’re always told “Don’t add acid.” I have a new battery that was upturned in transit and a lot of the acid spilled out, topping up with d/water and it works but I think the acid is too diluted, what’s the remedy?
I was hoping you could tell me your thoughts on the Batt Recon system www.battrecon.com. I am in the process of starting a small business based on battery restoration using this machine. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
For the VRLA battery or SLA battery, It is no need to add acid. if the acid spilled out, the quality of the battery maybe not good, I suggest you change a new one.
hello ,I have scooter chair that is new it was used for 5 minutes then it sit for 4 or 5 months battery now they want recharge back up is there something i can do to make them charge . trucks717@yahoo.com
u cant let batteries sit for 4-5 months without charging them. They sulphate and u cant fix that. The batteries would not be any good, thats why they dont charge. if you arent going to use the scooter for a while, just give the batteries an hour charge every 2 weeks and they will last much longer
If you are fammiliar with the different battery reconditioning systems.
* Battery sevices International - additive + electronic pulsating +/ 20Hours
* Zulu One - no additive only electronic treatment +/- 0ne hour
please try to explain the advantages and disadvantages of the two methods.
Your help will be highly appreciated
Thank you
Very good article thanx for usefull information
What shiod be the best charging routine for the 48V/20 AH (4 Cells) battery of my EBike with 20 Km daily travel? I have bought a new e-bike (250 W BLDC motor, 48 V/20 AH (4 cells) SLA Battery. The charging time for the battery is 6-8 hours. The range of the e-bike as claimed by the company is 60-70 km per charge. According to them, the battery would last for approximately 300 cycles of charging. I plan to use the e-bike for 20 km a day. With my usage, the battery charge would last for 3 days. But I know that deep discharging would decrease the life of a SLA battery. Is it okay for me to charge the battery every 3 days or should I charge the battery daily ?. Please suggest the best possible routine for charging the batteries so that I could get most out of the battery and also increase the life of the battery to the maximum extent possible.
Hi, I’m a battery and EV technician working & living in Gothenburg Sweden. Our business name is Simson Motor Company AB and we import EVs from China and we are also a European distributor of Battery Life Saver from Tampa USA.
There is a huge and major problem in terms of charging several batteries in series connected systems.
In the beginning of life span of a lead acid battery all works pretty fine. Shorty after driving / discharging an EV some of the cells shows shortcoming in SoC due to slight quality differences of each cell.
For instance our cars have 72 volt / 6 batteries system. Some of them are reaching 14,5V some only 13 volt and the best ones will overcharge 15-16V due to the charger is targeting for 87-88VDC, so the total voltage of all batteries will stop the charger. This applies to 48V or whatever you have. First of all you need to balance each of the batteries. We are the only manufacturer of very effective and affordable BMS for Lead-Acid. The AToB Balancing Shunt is a good product and has been tested for a year. You need one unit of AToB and a power resistor 50W on each battery to shunt the overcharging current and transmit the heat to metal. This helps to charge the batteries that are behind. Next point is that BLS works fine to stop building up of crystals and prolong the life span greatly. We can show capacity testing report performed on very sulphated batteries. It definitely works fine. smcab@telia.com
Hey Simson: This is a comment section to ask questions, not to advertise your products for sale, or to brag about what you have ‘invented’. Get a life
I bought a used mobility scooter recently, it has twin 12v 80 ah x2 pcs ,when fully charged it shows 6 bars on display when ignition is turned on, but after a few minutes it drops 2 bars. do it mean the batteries are on their way out.
thank you.
tell about seald acid battrey, chaging procedure.
I just couldn’t leave your website before saying that I really enjoyed the quality information you offer. Will be back often to check up on new stuff you post 
! !
Any type of VRLA batteries own their charged Volt rang, can not be charged by higher nor lower volt. should be right volt rang from -0.2~+0.2 aM. give me message if you have different battery: vitotam@126.com
would someone kindly answer my question of the 13/ 8-2011 regarding batteries not performing properly.I hope you can Oblige.thank you.
I connect a 42AH battery with a 16W Lamp without a charge controller, after couple of days found the light was very dim, does this mean that the battery has over discharged, I have now installed a 10A SPV charge controller please advise what can be wrong and in case if the battery has been over discharged how do I revive the battery
Good morning,
I bought the book: ‘Batteries in a portable world’ by Isidor Buchmann, Third edition.
But the information named here is missing in that book.
Is this information still availible in a paper form?
I would love to have that.
Greets,
Dennis.
O Bediniho nabijačkach ste nepočuli? Inak funguju aj ako desulfator
I just added acid to a motorcycle battery and charged it. I will not be needing this batter for another year or so. Can I remove the acid, then clean the battery out with RO water and bring it back to a new state. Then I plan on just putting the acid back in. The battery is only a few days old and has never been used/discharged.
@craig
do not drain battery of acid, if not using for extended period the best course of action is to attach battery to an optimiser, battery conditioner and leave
@G Grainger
wthout testing sounds like your batteries have lost capacity
can i check % discharge after use my golf cart 2x12v 75.ah.battries and how
please send me about life of sild asiad battery and do we need a diferent voltage to charge of that battery . for example first charging- maintnance charging and repeting charging
beacuse we have deferent charger in my company
I wont recharg my 140 amp batrey using with wing power . can u give me suggest
is there any secret to extending the life of my 36 volt golf cart battery. I have heard about putting a asprin in each cell or epsem salt do these trick really work ?
Thanks for this great and interesting article. I really enjoyed the article. It’s really useful and informative for me.
Many problems with multiple batteries’ charging & discharging are caused by their being incorrectly connected. Take some hints from
http://cdpl1.blogspot.com/2007/05/multiple-batteries-in-cars.html
AD-X2 was invented in the 1940s by Jess Richie, a bulldozer operator. He founded Pioneers, Inc to promote the product Someone wrote about AD-X2 subsequently: “The instructions on the AD-X2 package were sound. By following them a consumer might have achieved favorable results without even using the additive inside the package.” What did the instructions say? “Fully charge the battery at not more than 10 amps.”
@Kyle Bailey
You are asking if one of those scam De-Sulfation systems work, You buy junk from them to start a business rejuvenating lead-acid batteries. There is no scientific evidence such systems work. There are plenty of people who *say* they work, but they can’t cite real evidence.
The author of this piece talks about “reversible or soft sulfation”. Apparently, he means a battery that is slightly discharged. A truly dead lead-acid battery cannot be returned to life by applying a voltage higher than normal.
Batt Recon is one such snake oil company. But identifying the name of the company does no good because, the guy will simply change the name.
`~- Nehmo
This might be of some help. Every year about 250 million automobile-truck batteries wear out and are replaced, world-wide. If the average lifetime automobile ownership is 50 years, then each year one-fiftieth of the driving population are first-timers, who have little or no idea there are “snake oil” battery rejuvenation merchants out there. Thus there are five million “virgin” customers who, like most people, are willing to try something new at least once. Statistics are on the side of the “snake-oil” merchants. Human nature is on their side and has guaranteed they can continue to make a living. I am simply trying to give an explanation. There is a great deal worse going on out there. Caveat emptor.
There is no black magic in your car/truck battery performance:
1. buy battery that is less than 4 weeks old;
2. prior to installation in the car charge it for 8 hours using charger that delivers about 10% of Amps of battery AH capacity;
3. ensure that your alternator current rating is higher that the maximum possible current used by your vehicle (including trailer/caravan where applicable);
4. regularly clean the battery posts & check the electrolyte level; when required top up with distilled water.
With these four simple points, your battery will last a minimum of 5 years.
With multiple batteries ensure they are of the same “age” and are connected as indicated in my previous post.
By the way, my best experience has been with the so-called spiral batteries (3-4 times more expensive than “normal” ones).
Using an old personal computer power supply,
I am going to build a desulfator
Tap into the 33 kilohertz and ride it on top of the 12 volt output
(chokes and capacitors to to isolate)
12 volt is above 60% charge
Anyone try something similar ?
(more ideas—with a transformer, stepping up the voltage of the audio output, of a sound system—or 27 mhz output of a CB set (power amp ?)—my 2.4 ghz wifi can ut out half a watt, but how to connect ?)
Zlop, 33kHz is way too much. Normally you desulfate with 2 to 12kHz. I have been trying with 16kHz because it is outside audio range, and it works, it desulfates pretty fast but only to SG of about 1,22, then it stops. I could leave it for 2 weeks, it did not move. But when I lowered the freq to 12k, it quickly ramped up to 1,26 average.
But still, I believe the most in my 6kHz unit. It did 40Ah car battery from 1,21 to 1,26 in 12 days, and now I am testing a 3 times stronger unit.
For those who say desulfation does not work .. well I am only at the beginning, but I have already desulfated abou 10 batteries, vrla/flooded, various sizes. If there is no other problem with the battery (before desulfation 24hrs after charging voltage is over 12,5V for 12V battery), desulphation surely recovers the capacity. If you say it does not work, you most likely never tried it or you are doing something wrong. It definitely is no snake oil.
When the battery quite suddenly, without the usual tired morning cranking, refuses to start the engine and then on top of that refuses to accept a proper full charge, it is unlikely to have become sulfated but is suffering from “open circuit”. This is a condition that affects calcium grid alloy batteries. The junction between the calcium alloy of the positive grids and the positive lead dioxide active material develops an insulating film over time, causing the active material to become electrically disconnected. This problem is well known among the inner circles of the lead-acid battery industry. They prefer to ignore it.
The film can be broken down by (a) chemical means and by (b) pulsing the battery with high energy spikes. The pulses need to be spiky, intense and be repeated reasonably slowly in order for the insulating layer to be broken down.
I used a chemical that released a tiny amount of chloride very slowly into the electrolyte. The chloride, (not the same as chlorine), simply dissolved the insulating film and the battery has been working for four years. I checked its ampere-hours after the treatment and it was at about 70% of what was on the label.
Batteries can fail for a variety of reasons. Batteries that are always being used do not sulfate. Batteries left standing do sulfate. Sulfation is caused by neglect. Usually it cannot be reversed. “Open circuit” can occur at any time. It can be treated successfully.
@ John Fetter > Thanks a lot, John! Actually I think you answered a question that was in my mind for about 2 weeks. I have a battery one year old, CSB EVX12260 (12V 26Ah). I do howewer not know if there is calcium involved, usually they state it on the label, but here it is not stated, but who knows. The battery has 5 cells OK, they were sulphated at SG about 1,20 at full charge. One cell however was lower, at only 1,14 and its plates were naked, I needed to add water to cover them. I pulsed the battery with sharp (<50ns rise time) 10A with pulses at 12kHz. All cells got much better. Those five that were on 1,20 got to 1,27 - 1,28. But the cell that was at 1,14 got to only 1,24 and seems not willing to go any higher. And when I try an Ah test with C/20, for the first hour everything seems OK, but then this lowest cell starts to decline voltage slowly, with SG unchanged. When I remove load, it jumps again to about 2,05V.
I suppose I am facing the problem you talked about. The problem is, although I already tried to cure the battery just like you stated, I think my pulses are spiky enough, but I am not sure s how intense the pulse has to be (if 10A is enough) and if I am repeating the pulses slowly enough (is 12kHz too much, or not)?
@ matej > Let us look at the situation with your battery again. (1) You have not described its history, so discussion must be considered speculation. (2) Nowadays batteries are assembled entirely by machine. It does happen that one of the separator envelopes gets torn. The QA inspection does not pick this up. So the battery works for a while and then, out of the blue, the opening gets filled by sludge and/or moss and the SG of the affected cell begins to fall and keeps falling. (3) The fact that the affected cell appears to have been using more water seems to suggest there may have been a metal object, (piece of steel), that somehow got into the cell, causing excessive gassing, self discharge. (4) When one or more cells develop a low SG that seems to want to stay down, it is usually the end of the road for the battery. You have very little to lose by emptying out that cell, washing it out and refilling with new acid. But don’t expect any miracles.
By the way. Simply charging the battery very slowly and for an extended period has revived many batteries inexpensively.
Thanks John. The battery was bought about 18 months ago. Actually we bought two batteries for a small 24V solar system with maximum charging current of about 7A, which is a little below specified maximum. These 2 batteries were in series all the time, they were even in the same package. Very interesting is, that the other battery it has been in series with is perfect, when I got it it was about 85% and after few days’ desulfation is 110% on Ah test. I did not even open it.
If there is some metal object in the discussed cell, it must have got there in the factory. I did not open that battery until I did the first Ah test and measured only about 15% capacity.
(All test at C/20 until 10,5V).
The battery has been at desulfator at 13,8V for more than three weeks. I do not think the DC current itself would fix it, if DC current + desulfator didn’t .. or am I wrong?
How can I empty this cell? I never did this on VRLA battery. I guess I must hold the other rubber covers in place while flipping the battery..?
@ matej > OK. Now you are saying the battery is VRLA. I guess I should have looked up CSB EVX12260 specifications before commenting. Let me know how you measured electrolyte levels and SGs!
The only method I could do toat was to pop the cover, remove the rubber clamps. In VRLAs I do not measure exact level, I just always add enough water to cover the cells that are not covered. Then I measure SG with refractometer. Then I desulfate and when after desulfation the SG gets over 1,29, which is the usual case, I add enough water to dilute it for 1,28.
Look maybe you will offend that this “should not” be done on VRLAs but there is no other way one can check and/or add water into the VRLA, right?
The only method I am ableto do that is to pop the sealing cover, remove the rubber clamps. In VRLAs I do not measure exact level, I just look into and add enough water to cover the cells that are not covered, plus a little more (2-3mm above plates) just to be sure, because desulfation pulses sometimes cause water loss at first. Then I measure SG with refractometer. Then I desulfate and when after desulfation the SG gets over 1,30, which is the usual case, I add more water to dilute it for 1,28. This usually results in water level in half between the cell top and battery top. Such was also the case with the EVX we talk about, except that one problemous cell.
Look maybe you will offend that this “should not” be done on VRLAs but there is no other way one can check and/or add water into the VRLA, right?
@ matej > Why not !!! You paid for the batteries. That gives you permission to do as you please with them. All I can say is carry on what you are doing. I would give the battery with the “down cell” a nice long slow charge, with pulses.
I am one of those people who recharges alkaline cells. Some brands work very well, others do not. My flashlight has run for five years on same set of repeatedly recharged alkalines.
Another “non-standard”. I try to buy my car batteries unformed. I have a special organic chemical “brew” that I use to fill the battery, then drain out, dry, then fill with acid, charge until 350% of the ampere-hours have gone in, to form the battery. After that it is ready for the car. The reason for the “brew” is that it reduces the self discharge to just about zero. If left disconnected, she will start the car after standing 2 years.
Thanks John, as I said the battery has been sitting at 13,9V DC with 12kHz 10A inductive pulses for more than 2 weeks. The question remains, are these pulses adequate, or what frequency / amplitude can you recommend?
That zero-self-discharge “brew” would definitely be something veteranists would love! If you could only disclose some details ..
There are batteries that are sold dry-charged, without electrolyte, maybe that is what would suit your needs.
I also charge ordinary alkaline cells sometimes, with 1,6V 200mA and have the same experience as you. Some work, some don’t. I also found out that Energizer Lithium cannot be recharged.
@ matej > The charging instructions for VRLA assume the user will never open the cells to replenish the water. Your willingness to open the cells to add water changes the rules. I would give the battery 100mA constant current and let the voltage go as high as it likes. I use an ordinary electronic regulated power supply to do this kind of thing, not a battery charger. If you have not got, try putting two 12V charger outputs in series, plus a small filament lamp also in series to limit the current, and charge with that. Select the wattage of the lamp to adjust the current. Combinations of lamps in series/parallel to adjust current. The current is not critical. You need to let the battery “find” its proper top-of-charge potential at which it is gassing freely. After that add water and reclose.
The “brew” would definitely work for dry charged batteries. It is dangerous to use. It consists of a blend of organic molecules having a molecular weight of around 700, which are dissolved in boiling acetone, giving a concentration of less than 1%. Poured boiling into one cell at a time, then immediately poured out again. This leaves a coating of the organics on every component inside the cells. Only the negatives need it. The rest is wasted but there is no other way to do this. The organics are insoluble in battery acid. However, they do diffuse at nanoscale, just enough to do what needs to be done to create a selective ion barrier over the negatives that stops impurities reaching the negatives and thereby causing gassing. The idea is based on a “party trick” which can be seen on www.battery-plus.net - if you’re interested.
I replaced one bad battery in a group of older batteries connected in series and the charge life was cut in half. Is the problem that the older batteries are not being brought up to capacity and if so can I do anything short of replacing the older batteries.
I’m having a similar problem.
I am receiving email notifications to my question. However, for some reason the comments are not showing up on my computer. Please send responses to slim5@centurytel.net. Thanks!
Using 60 cycle reverse pulse —light bulbs with diodes
300 watt — and 100 watt reverse — directly from 110 volt AC
took a couple of weeks, but did work
(anyone try something similar—perhaps high frequency riding on top
CB transmitter or output of broken compact fluorescent ?))
A big thumps up for your site .The information you provided is very beneficial and it could not even better .You did a good job By posting this article here , Thanks !!!
How I Reduce the water loss in my lead acid battery
Virendra
You can reduce water loss by making sure the charging voltage does not go too high and by pressurizing the cells of the battery.
If you can explain what kind of battery, (automobile, solar, standby or motive power) and/or what kind of duty, I can give you specific details.
STILL IN MANY AUTOMOBILES WE ARE USING LEAD ACID BATTERIES. CAN WE REPLACE THIS WITH LITHIUM-ION BATTERY?
Madhu
Li-ion makes sense only where minimum weight is critically important. Lead-acid SLI costs roughly one tenth the price and seems to last twice as long as Li-ion. Volume/weight difference, in terms of SLI, is irrelevant in an automobile.
Unlike semi-conductors, the real cost of Li-ion will not fall significantly over time.
On November 5, 2011 at 8:06am
Nehmo wrote:
@Kyle Bailey
You are asking if one of those scam De-Sulfation systems work, You buy junk from them to start a business rejuvenating lead-acid batteries. There is no scientific evidence such systems work. There are plenty of people who *say* they work, but they can’t cite real evidence.
The author of this piece talks about “reversible or soft sulfation”. Apparently, he means a battery that is slightly discharged. A truly dead lead-acid battery cannot be returned to life by applying a voltage higher than normal.
Batt Recon is one such snake oil company. But identifying the name of the company does no good because, the guy will simply change the name.
`~- Nehmo
They are not not all a scam and junk!...........
http://www.puls-r.com/assets/images/Puls-R_Mira_Leaflet_LR.pdf
Independant testing by MIRA (Motor Industry Reaserch Association). Show that it does work.
Martin
@Martin - agree!
@Nemho - It is true that “A truly dead lead-acid battery cannot be returned to life by applying a voltage higher than normal.” However, the question is - what battery is considered “truly dead”. And to be precise, desulfation is not about applying “voltage higher than normal” but by applying it for short periods of time, repeatedly.
12V battery that stays above 12V for days after charging, has not been used very heavily (plates not worn out), is not very old but has little capacity would be considered “dead” by many. But such battery is the prime candidate for desulfation with promising results. If you would give me such a battery and I will restore its capacity by pulsing - will that be good enough evidence for you?
Of course, there are people who sell junk, but that is in every kind of industry. Desulfation by pulsing definitely works, I personally desulfated many batteries that had little capacity and could not be returned to function by charging.
If you say there is no scientific evidence they work, well - I ask who is gonna prove it scientifically? Battery makers surely aren’t the ones trying to make batteries last longer. Sadly, they rather want you to buy new battery instead.
And there are also many patents on desulfation, even 30 years old ones.
@Martin - I agree.
@Nemho - It is true that “A truly dead lead-acid battery cannot be returned to life by applying a voltage higher than normal.” However, the question is - what battery is considered “truly dead”. And to be precise, desulfation is not about applying “voltage higher than normal” but by applying it for short periods of time, repeatedly.
12V battery that stays above 12V for days after charging, has not been used very heavily (plates not worn out), is not very old but has little capacity would be considered “dead” by many. But such battery is the prime candidate for desulfation with promising results. If you would give me such a battery and I will restore its capacity by pulsing - will that be good enough evidence for you?
Of course, there are people who sell junk, but that is in every kind of industry. Desulfation by pulsing definitely works, I personally desulfated many batteries that had little capacity and could not be returned to function by charging.
If you say there is no scientific evidence they work, well - I ask who is gonna prove it scientifically? Battery makers surely aren’t the ones trying to make batteries last longer. Sadly, they rather want you to buy new battery instead.
And there are also many patents on desulfation, even 30 years old ones.
Here is some food for thought. The more patents there are on a given technology, the MORE problematic the technology. There are more than 70 US patents on pulse desulfation, under one guise or another. Each successive inventor describing the prior art as flawed.
Modern automobile batteries contain calcium alloy grids. This alloy is very problematic. A significant number of these batteries fail due to “open circuit”, also known as the antimony-free effect. The cause is an ultra-thin insulating layer that develops over time at the junction of the positive grid surfaces and the positive active material. The symptoms are almost indistinguishable from the popularized malady known as sulfation.
Calcium alloy grids were introduced into the mass automobile battery market not long before pulsing came onto the market.
What does the pulsing do? Does it desulfate, does it punch through this insulating layer or does it rely on strong imagination?
John .. well that is interesting. I have noticed there exist batteries with some Calcium addition, it is sometimes mentioned on the battery sticker. Your explanation of breaking down this insulating layer, and not sulfation sounds quite possible. In fact, the pulse regeneration is based on the fact that high frequencies can at least partially - energize (punch through) insulators regardless if the insulator is sulfation or calcium alloy layer, but DC can not travel thru insulators.
You mention automotive batteries. But there are great results with desulfation of stationary, traction, GEL, AGM ... lead acid batteries. Do you think they all involve this calcium alloy layer?
Also in many cases, when the case of battery is transparent or at least translucent, by pulsing the plate surface turns from white to dark grey or almost black. I assume the insluating layer you mention as between grid and active material, is not visible as it is “inside” the plates .. right?
I personally can send you photos of desulfated 12 12Ah (exact type is Yuasa 12V12A-4A-1) motorcycle battery, that was left discharged for almost 2 years in an unused motorcycle and had 4 cells shorted by hard sulfation (battery would not stay above 5V after charging). The battery is translucent. Slowly i have managed to turn the battery to a condition when it is usable again and the plates visible from the sides are dark, whereas they were white before pulsing started. What do you think of this?
Hi Matej
ALLOY
All earlier lead-acid batteries were made with antimony alloy lead grids. Their perceived disadvantages: (1) Relatively high water consumption; (2) High price of antimony.
Calcium alloy was introduced to overcome disadvantages (1) and (2). However, calcium alloy has its own inherent disadvantages. That insulating layer is one of them.
Calcium alloy batteries also generally have shorter life expectancies than antimony alloy. From a battery manufacturer perspective this equates to an increase in replacement battery sales.
SULFATION
The only way to demonstrate the efficacy of pulse treatment is to run properly controlled experiments. Cells for testing must be new prior to testing. Their ampere-hour capacity tested prior to being allowed to sulfate under controlled conditions.
Pulsing causes cells to be charged at the average value of the pulses. So it is necessary to cancel out the beneficial effect produced by this charging effect. The cells would need to be divided into two groups. One group receiving pulsing, the other group receiving dc charging at the average value of the pulsing.
The cells must be subjected simultaneously and for the same duration. At the end of the test their ampere-hours must be measured.
Discharged plates have a different color to fully charged plates. A white coating can form even on perfectly good plates.
Surely a battery can only be described as hard sulfated after the presence of “hard sulfation” is demonstrated by actual sampling and analysis?
Recently I had a battery die on me. I too. k it to have it trickled charged BUT before I had it put on the charger, I asked the technician…what was this black crud on the battery caps ???
I have been in service station management from 1950 to 1972 and sold name brand batteries and never had seen this before. The technician told me it was a impure lead composition and that it ad oxidized [or sulphated ] .
The battery failed to take any charge. The technician tried over two consecutive days. NADA. I asked for the for a print out of the charging results.
I sent a copy of y purchase receipt, battery test and a few pointed questions to the MANUFACTURER and asked him WHY his “PRIVATE LABEL” battery made for a franchise…[1] failed 3 months before the 2 year warranty, and [2] WHY it would fail to take any charge ? I sent a PDF of a photo of he battery caps, purchase receipt, and battery test.
ALL of my questions were evaded. All they want to do is adjust the battery.
AT this point I no longer trust their manufacturing process or the lead they are using. I ow suspect they are using a “calcium alloy”...??? I came to his conclusion by reading what John Fetter wrote about “calcium alloys” ...On November 30, 2011 at 4:44pm.
If anyone has any input or suggestions, it would b appreciated. I am no longer in service station management, but still do the maintenance on my vehicles
Aubrey
The battery manufacturing game has become so ultra competitive, local battery vendors are buying more and more from the low manufacturing cost countries in the world. There is nothing wrong with that, in principle, but it does open the door to manufacturers who cut corners and whose products end up in our cars without us even being aware of it.
The brand labels are often put onto the batteries by the local battery vendors. You have no idea after that where it was made. There is nothing that is made today that someone, somewhere is not able to make at an even lower price. In the case of batteries - fewer plates, inferior raw materials, poor manufacturing. Try weighing the battery. If it is underweight, you have confirmation.
Are there any special additives to be added to the active material (lead oxide) while manufacturing SMF AGM Batteries.
And what is a Gel Battery. How is this Gel and the electrodes of gel batteries made?
I wouldl like to know how to make the ion additive- boiling acetone?-don’t seem right to me- & molecular weight 700- eh? what are you referring to?please come clean here! thank you. John Fetter.
Hi Bevan
You can make an impure version from beeswax. Your local beekeepers can probably sell you some raw bluegum (brown) beeswax, however, you should go for raw citrus (yellow), because that reacts to form the required substance.
You also need sodium hydroxide, sodium bisulfite and sulfuric acid.
Boil the wax in roughly 10% solution of sodium hydroxide. turning it into soap. Allow to cool. You want to collect the hugely expanded volume that floats, discard the liquid part containing all the impurities. You’ll probably need a strainer.
Make up an approximately 2% solution of sodium bisulfite and bring to the boil. Slowly add the “soap”, wait until “soap” has melted, stir, then add ordinary sulfuric battery acid, milliliter by milliliter, SLOWLY, stirring, until the pungent smell of sulfur dioxide stops. You cannot do this inside - the sulfur dioxide that is given off is obnoxious.
Allow to cool. The modified wax will form a hard block on the surface. This is what you use to treat the batteries, per suggestion, Nov 15, 2011.
There will not be very much of the required ingredient in this modified wax but it will work. The “wise guys” out there will imply that wax is the real ingredient. The wax gets blown off the plates when the battery is put on charge. The active ingredient does not.
As to what the stuff is - all I can say is that I prefer to use the Coca Cola philosophy.
I have given this material to numerous battery manufacturers all over the world for testing. Some of them continued testing the batteries to destruction. When they found the treated batteries lasted longer than the plain ones, disappointingly, they lost interest..
Any ideas about how the battery will react to a very low charge rate.
Say a 16AH 12 V charged at a constant current rate of 150mA.
I quickly estimated a 5-6 days recharge time. This seems a lot. Note that I am using the battery in a float mode. Could a charge rate that low cause problems to my battery ?
Hi Guillaume
Your proposal will probably result in the battery being given the best possible quality charging. Slow charging is always much better for the battery than fast charging. You should not continue at 150mA beyond 6 days, rather limit the charge voltage to 13.5V. You can leave it at that (float) voltage indefinitely.
Thanks for info John- will try. I endorse my home made desulphator- it has rescued many batts wla vrlsa gel which would not charge at any settings- @ a short period on desulphator- recharged as new. Uses a 555 into a mos-n-fet into 2 large inductors, a smallchoke, a large diode- & a diode at pos term to read pulse level- I have seen 350v- when falls to 15v or so- put on charge- works on 12v & 6v batts. One would assume that world wide batt manus were not interested in making longer life batts!. Just bought 2 new wla batts from local retailer- both brand new- 270 CCA- $59eaA- both needed charging at 14v using my modified ATX 300W charger for 12 hrs to reach full charge! To my knowledge, as older days, fully charge batt then empty electrolyte out- thus batt becomes dry-charged & thus able to be stored without deterioation for long periods. A flat wla batt has all acid in plates- a full charge wla has all acid in electrolyte. Cheers.
Hi Bevan
Here is some food for thought. It is fairly general. In the early 1980s industrial motive power battery users began demanding single point battery watering equipment, (battery watering caps). The battery industry went ahead - designed and manufactured. Their caps were a 100% across-the-board disaster. They did not have clue what they were doing. They never got them right. Specialists running small businesses designed and went into manufacturing - and were successful.
Battery pulsing units are auxiliary in the same way. Battery people could not get their heads around watering caps. Similarly, they cannot get their heads around pulsing technology.
There were never many battery watering cap makers due to the staggering high business entry cost of plastics injection molding tooling. Electronic pulsing units can be made at next to zero business entry cost. Hence it attracts thousands of eager beaver pulse equipment makers world wide.
I gauge the effectiveness, or otherwise of pulsing, not by technical efficacy but by by the size of the pulse equipment-making population world wide. It is huge. therefore pulsing works, (although I am of the opinion desulfation plays only a minor part, see my comments Nov 30).
From a purely business point of view, however, so what. There appear to be more and more pulse equipment makers chasing after a finite number of comparatively stingy customers. Profits are bound to stay tight. (Anything you can do well, someone else in a low labor cost country will inevitably also do.)
I am sure your circuit works. But surely what one needs is not technical but technical-plus-business exclusivity?
A combination of novel technology plus exclusive local applications know-how.
@John
Thanks for your reply. Just finish my charge test through the weekend. The total charging time is 5days and 1hour.
Unfortunately, I can’t control the charger voltage, my application is working with a constant-current charger.
I spoke with a representant from the manufacturer of the battery and here’s what came out : Constant-voltage charger is the way to go with lead-acid battery (I need to work with a constant-current charger). The minimum recommended current for a float charge is 10% of C10. That is 160 mA for my 16AH battery (C10 = 1.6A) This lower limit is for constant voltage charger.
Constant-current charger are to be used indoor only. Don’t really know why but I assume that the higher internal battery resistance at low temperature may increase the losses in the battery (P=R*I^2) and those losses might damage the battery ?
The float current recommended is 16-32 mA (my charger works with 8mA). According to the manufacturer, a “8mA charge current will most likely undercharge the battery, particularly at cold temperatures. Over time this will cause internal sulfation to build up and ultimately cause premature battery failure.”
Hi Guillaume
If you try floating lead-acid at constant current you are asking for trouble. You can minimize long term problems by charging at constant current fractionally above the 32mA that was recommended.
Yes Iam Very new to the Battery repair area, I was wondering it you had a Free trainning DVD on Forklift battery repaair and Amps, voltage, ect.. That you could send me? Also I want a T shirt from Battery U, LOL just joking. thank you.
@John
The thing is that I don’t have the option on the charger current levels. It’s a 150 mA charge-rate until the battery reaches 90% then it switches to a 8 mA charge-rate.
This charge is controlled by a protection relay and a modification of either charge-rate implies a firmware update. And that is if the 150 mA is not the upper limit of the actual charger. I think I have no choice but to redesign the system.
Hi Guillaume
If you can, at all, manage it, you should aim for 150mA constant current until the battery reaches 14.4V. As soon as the battery reaches 14.4V, switch to constant voltage 13.5V. The battery can be discharged as and when required. Avoid going under 10.5V. Recharge soonest after discharge. Battery life expectancy - probably 10 years.
GENERAL COMMENT
Battery manufacturers affix barest minimum notification to batteries. All they do is put on is stuff that scares people - “Acid burns. Batteries explode”.No wonder people have such a low opinion of batteries. Why no operating instructions? Why do they not address the No 1 problem? It would save billions of dollars every year and significantly reduce the carbon footprint of lead-acid batteries if a little note is put in a prominent place: “We recommend keeping this battery charged at all times. Batteries are best recharged as soon as possible after use. This precaution can help to avoid premature battery failure. Fewer battery replacements - lower carbon emissions.” Good PR sells, grumpiness does not.
@John
Thanks for your input. This one really helps. I’ll try to figure if it is possible to switch to constant-voltage 13.5V at 14.4V. Unfortunately, I can’t program the battery charger firmware but I can still ask for it.
Jeff,
I HAVE A BATTERY THAT DIED…and could not be revived !!!
I have emailed the battery manufacturer and his franchisee over this non-performing battery rated at 24 months, that suddenly died on the 21st month. It would not take a trickle charge even over a two day period.
I did receive emails both from the manufacturer and franchise operator requesting I bring in the battery with the receipt for an adjustment. Which I did.
IN THE PROCESS of waiting to write a response of the test performed by the franchise operator…
I RECEIVED an import/export alert for a SUPPLY of Lead acid drained battery scraps :
SO I put on my thinking cap and searched for a surplus metals recycler to email:
I WROTE…
When you recycle batteries are there various qualities of lead.
When you melt it down to recycle to re-sell please explain…
[1] do you segregate the brands by their quality of lead
[2] if not, how many times do you smelt it to remove the dross
[3] when you have a finished product, do you have an assay too of that particular batch available for the buyer
[4] I assume you have battery manufacturing companies purchase your product…so do you sell various grades of lead/alloy compositions
Thanks for your help.
NEXT…I did more research and found this site and article…
LEAD-ACID BATTERY HAZARDS written by Robert L. Taylor President of Morning Star Industries, Incorporated Power Systems Solutions Division.
WEB PAGE: http://sabahkini.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6525:lead-acid-battery-hazards&catid=42:rencana&Itemid=57
I found these two paragraphs quite interesting..
“...the cells that have not failed dissipate their energy into the failed cells.”
WHEN I TOOK THE BATTERY IN TO THE TECHNICIAN TO INSPECT…this is what transpired…
[1] When I arrived I told the technician, I have a battery that failed under warranty and went completely DEAD and I want to find out why it cannot be charged
[2] He asked me to put it up on the wood workbench to be tested…and I was surprised it was still holding a 12 volt charge, although it would make no connection with the starter solenoid to turn over the engine. It could not be jump-started with battery cables either.
[3] Next he started taking off the battery caps. I asked him about the black oxidized substance on the bottom of the caps and that I had sent a photo to the manufacturer. BOTH OF THEM HAD IGNORED THE COMMENT…“about the black residue” and made no comment as to why it is there..
[4] THEN I was amazed that he took a flash light to shine in each cell. He stated, “YOU HAVE A DEAD CELL. SEE THAT PIECE OF LEAD FLOATING IN THIS CELL ?...,[i.e. the negative post cell]...THIS IS A BAD/DEFECTIVE BATTERY.”
[5] We then went in and I showed him my receipt. He computed how much it would cost me to purchase a new battery. Saying, “XYZ Company supplies us with their batteries and they make thousands of batteries and ever so often a bad/defective battery ends up being sold.”
[6] In a previous email the franchise operator said, “YOU KNEW YOUR 24 MONTH BATTERY ONLY HAD A SIX MONTH FREE REPLACEMENT WARRANTY !” I wondered why he said that, but later sensed they knew it would not last the 24 months. On their website it stated that previously they were involved with reconditioning batteries. Made sense now. I kind of feel they have a lot of returns of faulty batteries, so they can increase the bottom line ??? [no proof]
[7] The technician told me that a new battery would cost me about 39.82 % of the original price ! I said thank you, took my battery and left their premises.
AT THE PRESENT TIME…I am writing the manufacturer to see what he has to say about the seven [7] statements of facts above.
I am of the opinion that I may be filing a report with the…
[1] BBB
[2] Consumer Reports Magazine
[3] State of Kentucky Department Of Consumer Affairs
[4] State of Georgia Department Of Consumer Affairs
[5] State of Florida Department Of Consumer Affairs
I’m spending a lot of time and energy which I feel is unnecessary.
I have a mechanic I use to do repairs when I don’t have the specific tools or the part is in such an area I cannot reach . This mechanic has had a similar story with the same manufacturer. While at his shop the other day, he asked another mechanic that purchases supplies for his own business. He was more demonstrative with his dissatisfaction of that manufacturer’s batteries.
SO I hope the article by Robert Taylor is of some help to others who have been short-circuited by shoddy workmanship and poor quality materials…with warranties based
knowingly on using inferior materials in their business practices to increase their bottom line.
Some of us remember ZENITH TV and their slogan, “The Quality Goes In Before The Name Goes On”...and I made a notation of this slogan in my first email to the manufacturer….and he made no comment or acknowledgment. Hmmmm !!!
Regards,
Aubrey Barrow..
Jeff,
I HAVE A BATTERY THAT DIED…and could not be revived !!!
I have emailed the battery manufacturer and his franchisee over this non-performing battery rated at 24 months, that suddenly died on the 21st month. It would not take a trickle charge even over a two day period.
I did receive emails both from the manufacturer and franchise operator requesting I bring in the battery with the receipt for an adjustment. Which I did.
IN THE PROCESS of waiting to write a response of the test performed by the franchise operator…
I RECEIVED an import/export alert for a SUPPLY of Lead acid drained battery scraps :
SO I put on my thinking cap and searched for a surplus metals recycler to email:
I WROTE…
When you recycle batteries are there various qualities of lead.
When you melt it down to recycle to re-sell please explain…
[1] do you segregate the brands by their quality of lead
[2] if not, how many times do you smelt it to remove the dross
[3] when you have a finished product, do you have an assay too of that particular batch available for the buyer
[4] I assume you have battery manufacturing companies purchase your product…so do you sell various grades of lead/alloy compositions
Thanks for your help.
NEXT…I did more research and found this site and article…
LEAD-ACID BATTERY HAZARDS written by Robert L. Taylor President of Morning Star Industries, Incorporated Power Systems Solutions Division.
WEB PAGE: http://sabahkini.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6525:lead-acid-battery-hazards&catid=42:rencana&Itemid=57
I found these two paragraphs quite interesting..
“...the cells that have not failed dissipate their energy into the failed cells.”
WHEN I TOOK THE BATTERY IN TO THE TECHNICIAN TO INSPECT…this is what transpired…
[1] When I arrived I told the technician, I have a battery that failed under warranty and went completely DEAD and I want to find out why it cannot be charged
[2] He asked me to put it up on the wood workbench to be tested…and I was surprised it was still holding a 12 volt charge, although it would make no connection with the starter solenoid to turn over the engine. It could not be jump-started with battery cables either.
[3] Next he started taking off the battery caps. I asked him about the black oxidized substance on the bottom of the caps and that I had sent a photo to the manufacturer. BOTH OF THEM HAD IGNORED THE COMMENT…“about the black residue” and made no comment as to why it is there..
[4] THEN I was amazed that he took a flash light to shine in each cell. He stated, “YOU HAVE A DEAD CELL. SEE THAT PIECE OF LEAD FLOATING IN THIS CELL ?...,[i.e. the negative post cell]...THIS IS A BAD/DEFECTIVE BATTERY.”
[5] We then went in and I showed him my receipt. He computed how much it would cost me to purchase a new battery. Saying, “XYZ Company supplies us with their batteries and they make thousands of batteries and ever so often a bad/defective battery ends up being sold.”
[6] In a previous email the franchise operator said, “YOU KNEW YOUR 24 MONTH BATTERY ONLY HAD A SIX MONTH FREE REPLACEMENT WARRANTY !” I wondered why he said that, but later sensed they knew it would not last the 24 months. On their website it stated that previously they were involved with reconditioning batteries. Made sense now. I kind of feel they have a lot of returns of faulty batteries, so they can increase the bottom line ??? [no proof]
[7] The technician told me that a new battery would cost me about 39.82 % of the original price ! I said thank you, took my battery and left their premises.
AT THE PRESENT TIME…I am writing the manufacturer to see what he has to say about the seven [7] statements of facts above.
I am of the opinion that I may be filing a report with the…
[1] BBB
[2] Consumer Reports Magazine
[3] State of Kentucky Department Of Consumer Affairs
[4] State of Georgia Department Of Consumer Affairs
[5] State of Florida Department Of Consumer Affairs
I’m spending a lot of time and energy which I feel is unnecessary.
I have a mechanic I use to do repairs when I don’t have the specific tools or the part is in such an area I cannot reach . This mechanic has had a similar story with the same manufacturer. While at his shop the other day, he asked another mechanic that purchases supplies for his own business. He was more demonstrative with his dissatisfaction of that manufacturer’s batteries.
SO I hope the article by Robert Taylor is of some help to others who have been short-circuited by shoddy workmanship and poor quality materials…with warranties based
knowingly on using inferior materials in their business practices to increase their bottom line.
Some of us remember ZENITH TV and their slogan, “The Quality Goes In Before The Name Goes On”...and I made a notation of this slogan in my first email to the manufacturer….and he made no comment or acknowledgment. Hmmmm !!!
Regards,
Aubrey Barrow..
I sent a more detailed email of the above [complaint] to the franchisee and the manufacturer of the batteries they sell.. I especially made a note about their technician showing me the LEAD FLOATING in the dead cell.. and .highlighted this point.
So far I have received no reply, They have usually responded within 24 hours or less.
SO doing more research this morning I found this web site…
http://www.bsiopportunity.com/docs/BSI GUIDE2.pdf
I hope it proves to be valuable information to those of you involved with batteries in any capacity.
Regards,
Aubrey Barrow
Aubrey
Lead has a specific gravity of 11.341. Battery acid has a specific gravity of about 1.25. Are you telling us you actually saw LEAD FLOATING IN BATTERY ACID?
NO…I did not see it [i.e. the lead] floating Their own technician told me that…and they have not yet refuted it !!
BUT I intend to have whatever is floating analyzed at the Department of Agriculture Testing Lab or someone other chemical lab. Because I do not think the technician, the franchise or the manufacturer have been “straight up” with me. I’m thinking they are using a very poor quality of contaminated lead alloy from overseas ???
The battery manufacturer has previously been in the battery reconditioning business and the franchise has been in the battery business sine 1959. My email to all concerned was sent at 3:02 PM 14 Dec 2011.
As of today 17 Dec 2011 at 7:35 AM EST , neither the manufacturer nor the franchise have made any attempt to resolve or address my complaint/issue with their product.
I am supposing they just want [perhaps] to sell me another battery and [perhaps ] recondition my core and resell it.
What can I say !, BUT the days of operating your business by your spoken word and a handshake to seal the deals over ! When I was growing up in my dad’s service station from 1950 to 1976…that is how we wished to operate our business. For me that has not changed and in my 30 years of paint contracting and carpentry repairs…you can find my name, signature and date of my work !!!
So I will continue to be about My Father’s Business !
Go figure ???
I thought this was a battery forum. Either the lines are crossed or people just want to blow off.
I came across this useful site as I have one of those portable charge units for vehicles with a carry strap etc, got it out of the garage and found it now wont take a charge, there should be a large warning sign printed on the front of these units, saying that they should be trickle charged every couple of weeks, the same goes for some torches (flash lights US) some also have lead acid batteries, how many of those are binned due to not being charged on a regular basis, so much for us all trying to live in a greener society!
One point I forgot, no doubt known by everybody, but just in case… I well remember my friend taking the charge leads off of a battery he was charging without switching the charge unit off, the spark ignited the gas coming from the charging cells and blew up the battery, lucky for him he never got hit, but its a lesson learned, switch off the charger before removing the charge leads!
Ian- this is basic stuff that everyone knows-(or should!) Often one can save a batt by zapping it with hi-voltage pulses which removes sulphation. Sla batts are used in these port batt/start boosters- I remove batt , attach short wide copper leads & clamps- starts far better- plus batt is available to recharge with proper method!
Very high magnification (600 to 2000) shows that lead sulfate crystals and lead metal crystals actually grow in completely different areas across the surfaces of negative plates - lead dioxide crystals and lead sulfate crystals likewise grow in different areas on the positive plates.
When a battery is in the process of being discharged, at the negative electrodes, the surface atoms of the lead metal crystals go into solution, then travel almost in contact with the surface towards the lead sulfate areas, get converted into lead sulfate upon arrival and precipitate out, adding to the lead sulfate crystals. The activity at the positives is similar.
When batteries are left discharged for a long time, the sulfate crystals simply take over and dominate. Is there anyone who can PROVE that pulsing can reduce these lead sulfate crystals and regrow the lead metal crystals, making the battery serviceable again, without resorting to pseudo-science and techno-babble?
Thanks for info Bevan, I do however take issue with the comment ‘what everyone should know’ I came to this site because I did not know, surely that’s what this site is all about, imparting information to those that perhaps, as you put it, not yet passed the ‘basic stuff’ in the battery knowledge threshold as yet!
Anyway it gave Mr Fetter a chance to question the fundamentals of the ‘basic stuff’ that I seem to lack!
All very interesting..
John-John_John!- What can we do with a person like you who demands PROOF of everything! Science don,t work that way my friend- in science what works works &a scientist then provides a theory of what worked(or seemed to) at the particular experiment- peer reviewed then supports or rejects . I have obtained some lovely yellow beeswax & will try your selective ion screening. As to proof of if high voltage zapping of a gel, vrlsa, sla, wla, works- well I am not a liar- my unit definitely works on all these types- but you will not believe till you do it your self! If you want the circuit I will provide. Cheers- Bevan.
Bevan
If pulsing is as good at getting rid of sulfation as you appear to suggest, it should be easy for one of the numerous pulsing proponents to show not that it works but how it works. I am not suggesting pulsing is not capable of reviving batteries. It is just that I do not buy the sulfation cure story as it has been told
There are over 70 pulse patents of one kind or another on file at the USPTO. Each successive patent specification claiming the previous technologies are flawed. The last one filed inevitably receiving it comeuppance a few weeks later. Translation: They are all guessing.
John, even though me and some others are convinced, by our own experience, that pulsing works to remove sulfation and use it to save batteries, we are not neccesarily scientists. Based on what do you assume that it ‘should be easy’ to show how it works ?! I may THINK how it works, but it is basically not important for me. There is so many things that work in nature but we not know how yet, or we only think we know.
If you are so curious, why don’t you do your own experiments? I do not have a 1000x microscope and a lab handy to show you the plates prior to and after sulfation, or whatever you require.
The fact that there is so many patents about pulse desulfation, does not neccesarily mean the technology is flawed. Maybe they all but the first one just “want a patent too” so they describe the prior art as flawed, USPTO dont require any proof right?
Yes they may be all guessing how it works, but what is important is that it WORKS.
There may be quite a few people who have been wondering about pulse treatment products and now they know.
I agree with matej- sure there are different ways of using pulsing- just as there are different ways of doing just about anything! All I need to know is IT WORKS!!!! & that it will rescue a battery that is useless to one with further life!!! The consensus of opinion is that pulsing reverses sulphation- I will go along with that. John is the odd man out here- looking for 100% confirmation of whatever at the atom & molecular level- well I just don"tcare about that level! It is ALL theory anyway!!! Cheers-Bevan.
I think there are fractionally under 60 billion dollars worth of automotive type batteries in use world-wide. Increasing their useful service life by just 1% would be worth $600 million. The pulse merchants are getting nowhere near this number in their businesses. It seems there are thousands just scratching around. Imagine how much money they stand to make if they take the trouble to figure it all out and get properly organized.
From a technical perspective, lead-sulfate requires energy for conversion back into normal active plate material. This energy has to be supplied by the pulsing device. It seems that what is being suggested by pulsing proponents is that they do not know and do not care enough to test their products.
It should be easy to run one group of to-be-reclaimed batteries on pure DC charging, a second on pure pulsing, a third on combined. The numbers need to be big enough to make the results statistically reliable. Can be part of everyday business. Just needs reliable recording. No special science, just ordinary electrician work.
There seems to be something at work that is holding back the pulsing proponents and preventing them from moving from a cottage industry into mainstream business.
John- the energy needed to power my desulphator or if you like battery zapper COMES FROM THE BATTERY ITSELF!!! As to business- I am 66, retired & just don’t care about filthy lucre!!! ALL THAT MATTERS in each of our lives is good health & enjoying our existence in whatever way that satisfies us, without harming others & the environement..Cheers- Bevan.
Bevan, mine too However of course no desulphator is perpetuum mobile, and the energy it dissipates needs to be replaced to the battery. Usually I just connect a 13,7V PSU and put a ferrite filter on one lead to prevent pulses from travelling to charger. And program the pulser to kick in at 13,1V, to turn off 12,9V.
I am 40 years younger than you Bevan Btw, what pulsing peak amplitudes and frequency are you achieving with your pulsers? Mine are about 6kHz 30-50A peak .. does most batteries <100A in less than a week.
Bevan,
I agree with your sentiments but not with your science.
Evolution made it fundamental to human nature always to find the easiest way to perform a given task. This worked very well until people’s pursuits began to damage the environment. Today, only the people who have done science experiments at some stage earlier in their lives seem capable of understanding the effects of careless industrial growth.
I am interested in extending battery life. I have researched the subject in great detail. I believe in being practical and in being businesslike. My background is electronics. I have a reasonable understanding of electrochemistry.
I have had contact with the battery industry for 30 years. Curiously, the industry seems to comprise mostly accounting-types in charge, salesmen and factory workers - with engineers down in the basements. The national standards for batteries are worked out by committees consisting of representatives from the industry itself. Two out of every three batteries sold are replacement batteries. Batteries have become grudge buys, are sold at the lowest price and are now mere commodities.
Sulfation occurs when batteries are persistently undercharged. Desulfation merchants find this a hard sell, so they invent reasons that sound better. To reverse sulfation, you need energy. The battery needs much more energy to reverse sulfation built up over time, than what it requires for a normal charge. Anything on the market that does not fulfill this requirement is bogus.
Preventing sulfation in healthy batteries is simple. No need to use pulsing. Simply keep them on a mild, direct current trickle charge. If one uses a pulser, the energy contained in the pulses does the charging. Batteries are not all that fussy and will accept what they are given. The downside of pulsing is that it gives the positive grids exposure to a persistent overpotential, which causes the grids to corrode away and the active material to fall out.
If one wants to measure the efficacy of a technology, there is no technical know-how involved. Just plain commonsense. There are thousands of pulse device constructors world-wide. If they outsell ordinary chargers and sales not only keep growing but have accelerated something like a hundredfold by ten years, they work. From what I can make out, pulse chargers have added no more than “marketing sizzle” to plain chargers, hence persuaded people to invest in chargers where previously they had not and improved sales at best respectably but nowhere near enough.
Pulsers appear to be useful in treating a condition known in the trade as “open circuit”, suffered by calcium-calcium alloy batteries, caused by a layer of insulating oxide that forms on the positive grid surfaces.
If you want to more than double the service life of today’s lead-acid battery, you need to have the battery at full charge roughly once a week and use something that counters positive grid corrosion.
Bevan,
I agree with your sentiments but not with your science.
Evolution made it fundamental to human nature always to find the easiest way to perform a given task. This worked very well until people’s pursuits began to damage the environment. Today, only the people who have done science experiments at some stage earlier in their lives seem capable of understanding the effects of careless industrial growth.
I am interested in extending battery life. I have researched the subject in great detail. I believe in being practical and in being businesslike. My background is electronics. I have a reasonable understanding of electrochemistry.
I have had contact with the battery industry for 30 years. Curiously, the industry seems to comprise mostly accounting-types in charge, salesmen and factory workers - with engineers down in the basements. The national standards for batteries are worked out by committees consisting of representatives from the industry itself. Two out of every three batteries sold are replacement batteries. Batteries have become grudge buys, are sold at the lowest price and are now mere commodities.
Sulfation occurs when batteries are persistently undercharged. Desulfation merchants find this a hard sell, so they invent reasons that sound better. To reverse sulfation, you need energy. The battery needs much more energy to reverse sulfation built up over time, than what it requires for a normal charge. Anything on the market that does not fulfill this requirement is bogus.
Preventing sulfation in healthy batteries is simple. No need to use pulsing. Simply keep them on a mild, direct current trickle charge. If one uses a pulser, the energy contained in the pulses does the charging. Batteries are not all that fussy and will accept what they are given. The downside of pulsing is that it gives the positive grids exposure to a persistent overpotential, which causes the grids to corrode away and the active material to fall out.
If one wants to measure the efficacy of a technology, there is no technical know-how involved. Just plain commonsense. There are thousands of pulse device constructors world-wide. If they outsell ordinary chargers and sales not only keep growing but have accelerated something like a hundredfold by ten years, they work. From what I can make out, pulse chargers have added no more than “marketing sizzle” to plain chargers, hence persuaded people to invest in chargers where previously they had not and improved sales at best respectably but nowhere near enough.
Pulsers appear to be useful in treating a condition known in the trade as “open circuit”, suffered by calcium-calcium alloy batteries, caused by a layer of insulating oxide that forms on the positive grid surfaces.
If you want to more than double the service life of today’s lead-acid battery, you need to have the battery at full charge roughly once a week and use something that counters positive grid corrosion.
Matej- your pulser uses WAY TOO much current! Also time!! My pulser is powered by batt itself-uses next to no current- & usually desulpates in from 1hr to several hrs depending of course on state of sulphation. The principle is pulses to dissolve sulphation- can hear running on am radio- so pulses are around 880khz. And NO John- the pulses are not chrging the batt!. As to pulsing only removing the calcium film-RIDICulous statement! I have used on gel, vrla,wla,sla, agm, etc- & also some that stated they were calcium hybrids! AND in most cases- the calcium hybrids DID NOT rejuvenate!!! Cheers-Bevan.
Gentlemen,
I am not criticizing your circuits. There is a huge market for battery life extending technology. Success in the market place is the litmus test of all technologies. Pulsing has done little more than add some sizzle to the ordinary battery charger market. The consumer is very particular and if a technology does not take off within ten years, it is flawed in some way.
Bevan, I received your comments about your pulsing system, although they are not up on this page - you say your battery powers the pulser, which in turn feeds back into the battery. In plain English, you are discharging the battery - i.e. increasing the total amount of sulfation in the battery!
You go on to say this usually does not work on hybrid calcium. What you have described rather well is a system that is definitely not addressing sulfation but is a 100% perfect fit on an oxide layer that causes the condition known as"open circuit"in calcium positives. Takes very little total energy.
Calcium hybrids always have low antimony alloy positives and calcium negatives. When you pulse a hybrid battery, you are not addressing any oxide problem, because antimony is free from this defect, so the pulsing cannot be expected to work and indeed does not work.
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hi,
would you please give me VRLA battery blowing up reasons I relay need to know
thanks
Tayebeh - Overcharging.
I have a mobility scooter which needs two 24v-80ah batteries [which are on their way out]what would be the best batteries [sealed lead-or gel ]to buy,for power and reliability. hope you can oblige thank you.
please send me more cataluage.