Additives to Boost Flooded Lead Acid

why water loss during charging with invertor and please also suggest me by adding how can we stop water loss in battery.

How much water is being mixed with the 10 heaping table spoons of Epson salt?
Is the acid to be removed from the battery 1st?

Why water loss:  Evaporation.  Modern “sealed” automotive batteries have very low water loss rate.  We used to have to check the water level of a car battery at least every 3 months.  Today’s automotive batteries can go their entire appx 5 year useful life without needing water.

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I have no experience putting additive in a modern automotive battery…  the batteries of 30 years ago it worked fine (and gave 2 weeks to 3 months extra battery life from a battery that typically survived 2 to 3 years).  The electrolyte chemistry is not the same in the newer batteries.

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Re the Epsom salts….

How much salt and how much water depends on battery size.  You will find it takes a lot of water to dissolve 10 tablespoons of epsom salt.  So this section does need editing.

Hopefully if you need to put additive in your battery you also need to add water… Its best to NOT remove electrolyte from the battery.  Its dangerous to mix acids with other chemicals.  Splashing can cause severe burns.

For best results use distilled water when mixing your own additive.  Just mix as much epsom salt in 1 cup of water as will dissolve.  Put equal amounts of this in each cell.

The benefit from these treatments is dissolving sulfate deposits (white crystals in the battery)  the sulfates cause internal shorting of the plates as well as the crystal expansion which can deform the battery.

Badly sulfated automotive batteries will have bulged ends.  At that point they don’t gain much from treatment.

($60 for a decent battery that lasts 5 years… why bother playing with this potentially dangerous practice?)

if you are adding epsom salt to battery cells and water, how do you put the solation in the cells with water, with out taking something out?

Surely treating a worn out battery is like watering a dead plant or feeding a dead dog? The rational mind will look after the plant and the dog. Yet hordes of people who regard themselves as perfectly rational will still attempt to breathe life into their dead batteries !!!!!

At first I was optimistic but now a little less so. I have a Bosch battery that’s only 3 yrs. old and pretty much crashed and burned. I drained the original electrolyte to find a cloudy,discolored solution with no Specific Gravity. Filled all the cells with the Epsom Salt mixture and noticed that it,too, is very discolored in appearance. I wonder how many times this mixture needs to be PowerCycled in order to stabilize and hold a respectable voltage? I assume 4 or 5 times would program a new memory into the Battery. I’m beginning to believe that the Specific Gravity of a MgSO4 solution will never rival that of H2SO4. I"m charging at 25V and 7A. I guess that I should be patient. These plates must be ultra-sulfated. Have a goodday!

Bobo
You appear to have done more damage to your battery doing what you did to it than it had suffered before you started! First of all, the story about sulfation being the reason batteries wear out is an urban legend. They sulfate up when they are not properly charged. Batteries that are used correctly never become sulfated. Secondly, you took out perfectly good electrolyte and put back a quack potion Thirdly, charging at 25V, 7A is totally crazy.

I agree with John.25v must be producing a fizzy drink,though I do not agree with John about sulfation~~~~ I have been led to belive ( by my grandfather who had a chain of “battery service stations” shortly after the end of the ww1”) That :- Plates are charged from the bottom up & dicharged from to top down & the reason modern batteries don’t last the way ie:- 6v batts in early vdubs did (6-8-10 years) which were healthilly discharged on starting then SLOWLY recharged,——is becaused modern cars take a split second to start & instantly top up the battery which means that only the top of the cell-groups are working which in turn leaves the rest a the plates to SULFATE

Note to Bobo:- I’ll bet your poor battery “crashed & burnt”. with a heap of hydrogen you are lucky you did not have an amazing explosion. why did you choose 25v.
I have used 24v to jump start 12v equipment but only for a split second and then with great care (like opening all the cell groups & blowing out any hydrogen that might be waiting to “pop”

Jimmy Young - The vast majority of reports on battery problems are anecdotal, the explanations mostly speculative and the proposed cures educated guesses.
Car batteries spend most of their lives just standing. In the old days off meant off but nowadays it means discharging into computers, alarms, (and yes, fans!), etc.

I would suggest persons verify their batt has sulfation 1st- a normal pos plate/s is are brown- neg plates are grey- sulfation is white- usually patches on both groups. There is a product on the market called Inox batt rejuvenatot- about $8- maker will add 12 months warranty if used on new batt- it seems to contain cadmium sulphate 5%- claims to dissolve sulfation- I have never tried- others have- results are inconclusive(anecdotal).

Bevan
Cadmium sulfate has been put into lead-acid batteries ever since the lead-acid battery became a commercial item. The brand you identified sells a roughly 5% solution of calcium sulfate, (according to their safety data sheet), recommending that 30 milliliters are added per car battery cell. Each cell holds about half a liter of acid, so it ends up very diluted.
The electrochemical potentials of cadmium, calcium sulfate; lead and lead sulfate are fairly close. It seems likely that the cadmium ions that enter the electrolyte as calcium sulfate very quickly end up electroplated onto the negatives, where they probably increase the metal surface area enough to give a sulfated battery just enough extra “oomph” to get the engine going - for a limited period after treatment.
Litmus test: If it had been capable of providing a long term solution, this technology would have long ago become a multi-hundred million dollar per year industry.

John- this company gives 12 months extra warranty if product is put into new batt   - so they expect majority of treated batts to last at least 12 months longer than standard - And the batts that fail as in taxi service then again wouldn’t most new batts last around 5 years if treated well anyway- & most batts have warranty of say 6 months for cheapie, 12 months for better, 2 years for top- so unlikely to have batt fail in warranty period(or even 12 months extra)- so how often has this Co had to pay out?-not very often if at all I would suggest!  And the batts that fail as in taxi service are not covered by any warranty anyway!  Most people who would buy this product do so when their batt starts to give trouble- Oh $8 is cheap- might work! indeed might- depends on reason for batt weakness- as you say unlikely to get any lasting benefit- still that is what this forum is about- educating us all!

Bevan
I have a small library of “grow your business” handbooks. Here are some basic rules. The majority of customers do not understand the technical side of things, so the salesman has to rely on tried and tested sales persuasion. (1) Make customers offers they can’t refuse. Guarantee the customer a result. (2) Apply risk reversal. Tell the customer, “If it does not happen, we will absorb the loss, not you”. Inertia, (or apathy), is on the side of the seller. Very few customers will think it worthwhile to make a big fuss over $8.
The key to success has nothing to do with the quality of the technology. It is all about presentation. There are millions of willing(!!!) buyers. This is how the free market works. Good luck to them.

Numerically speaking, the vast majority of lead-acid battery users never give a thought to the battery that starts the engine and keeps the radio and the lights going when the engine is not running. They are given a rude awakening when the battery dies.

A reasonable number of people are car enthusiasts. They like to work on their cars. A very much smaller number of people are actually interested in batteries. It is safe to say, batteries are very unloved. Batteries are grudge buys.

There is a second world of battery users, the industrial battery users - mainly standby and motive power, with wind and solar in the process of catching up. Industrial battery users are used to working with batteries and most are aware of the need to look after them. Nevertheless, proper maintenance remains a problem.

There are plenty of street-smart business people who are capable of convincingly promoting chemicals and electronic devices based on any number of different theories.

Most “veteran” battery users have seen hundreds of battery cures come and go.

How does one go about promoting a genuine battery cure?

John- a genuine battery cure for what condition of batt failure-& what type of batt? as you know, there are multiple failure modes- about the only ones responsive in some way to a chemical additive such as you have are the traction type that are routinely discharged/charged- your additive reduces the amount of top up water- (at a price I would suggest- reduced amp discharge rate/ recharge rate)- still if batt lasts longer!- promote that!- (not that you aren’t!)

Bevan
My question, “How does one go about promoting a genuine battery cure”, is philosophical. Carpets wear out. Tires wear out. Why do people supposedly in the know insist batteries do something else and go on to say this can be corrected, without making the slightest attempt to differentiate between “faulty” and “worn out”? (Sick dog or dead dog?)

John- you know as well as I do that the wear on tyres & carpets can be seen by anyone- whereas the wear on “black box” type things cannot- knowledge & testing instruments are required- which the average person does not have- so said persons are susceptible to truth benders with profit in mind. If only we were not collectively susceptible to lying politicians with power in mind!.

The easiest solution to reviving sulphated batteries that are in good mechanical condition (no shorted cells) is by topping up each cell with a small amount of a patented waterbased product, that has bee in the global marketplace for over 25 years.
Battery Equaliser will reverse the sulpahtion process as electrons flow.
After 5-10 runnings of your battery, the oversulphation that gradually builds up on and inside the lead plates is dissolved and put back into the sulphuric acid electrolyte.
This product used by USA and Israeli military, has been tested to death globally. It is availble in almost any country. manufactured in USA, Canada, Australia and Thailland.
Any lead acid battery can be treated from motorcycles to solar/wind and electric lift trucks.Electric lift trucks treated acn expaect up to $1000 savings per lift truck annually. They will charge faster(less restance) and run longer on the like new plates.
Treated solar storage batteries require up to 80 % less trickle cahrge to stay maintained, which is almost like doubling the size of the panel or prop.www.batteryequaliser.com .

Bill - The total value of automobile type batteries in use worldwide in 2010 is estimated at USD 57 billion. Motive power batteries USD11 billion. A battery performance enhancing product that is effective and that has been going for a quarter century may be expected to be generating many hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues.
It is not who says the product works nor who has used the product that necessarily points to success - surely the most reliable yardstick that is available has to be how much money the technology is generating? Commercial information sources say desulfation is a struggling cottage industry.